Pivoting for Career Growth & Development

In this episode, I interview Celinda Celinda Farias Appleby; She is the Director of Global Talent Attraction, at Visa. 

Celinda shares her career journey of 10+ years in recruiting. She has worked for industry leading companies like Nike, Oracle, and HP. 

Celinda is an avid sneaker-head and baseball mom who resides in Portland, Oregon with her 14 year old twin sons.

EPISODE LINKS

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  • https://www.instagram.com/celly_speaks/
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/celindafariasappleby/ 
• Get Your Free Career Guide at ManifestYourCareer.com
• Click Here to learn more about my career coaching services. 

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Visit my site for more information: https://manifestyourcareer.com/ 

The Unconventional Therapists' Guide to Nothing
Two therapists over-analyzing everything and anything to make it all make sense in the...

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Transcript

Norma Reyes: 0:02

Are you feeling stuck, lost or confused about what to do next in your career? Then the manifest your career podcast is just right for you. I'm your host Dr. Norma Rae is a career in mindset coach. I help successful Latinos who are battling self doubt, self sabotage and impostor syndrome. I teach my clients how to combine their intuition, skills and knowledge so that they can manifest their dream career. It's time you start listening to your inner wisdom and guidance. tune in each week to the manifest your career podcast, and learn how to align your mindset to your career goals. Keep listening and together will manifest your dream career. Hi, everyone, welcome back. This is episode 47. And today I have another guest for you. I can't wait for you to hear her career journey. Her name is Linda Farias. Appleby and she is the director of global talent acquisition for visa. Selena is a recognized leader in recruiting and employer branding. She has thrived in the global talent acquisition departments of Fortune one hundreds creating innovative digital strategies for industry leading companies like Nike, Oracle and HP. So Linda specializes in designing premium experiences and stories centered around humanizing the talent attraction cycle. She's a recruiter by trade and has previously held recruiting roles within corporate and agency enterprises. For the past 10 years. She's an avid sneaker head and baseball mom who resides in Portland, Oregon, with her 14 year old twin sons. Thank you, Sally for joining us. I can't wait to hear all about your career journey and the career advice you're gonna offer us. But first, tell us about your family background. Where did you grow up? And who did you live with?

Unknown: 2:28

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I've been a big fan of you for so long following you on Instagram. Miraculously, I think last year, over your vision board class that you did. So it's been super great following you and your your career path as well. So my family's children, and my parents are teen parent work teen parents when they had me. And we lived in the DC area, Silver Spring, Maryland to be exact is where I grew up. And I grew up with all my siblings, my grandparents. And I would say that in true immigrant fashion of plethora of fields and theists coming through as they would immigrate into America, we were always the host family.

Norma Reyes: 3:15

Yes, yes. We didn't really grow up with our extended family. But every so often when my mom's family would come every few years. Yeah, it was the Yeah, you're not in your room today and sleep on the couch. Oh, okay. Oh, for sure.

Unknown: 3:32

Yeah. So my dad is one of six and all of his siblings moved to the DC area. So we grew up as a huge family. I'm like, one of 40 cousins. And I was very lucky, my generation got to hang out together quite a bit because our grandparents would host every Sunday. So I will say family wise, I have a very large, you know, healthy family. Thank God.

Norma Reyes: 3:58

That's beautiful. I'm sure that helped with a lot of different challenges you guys faced. So when you were young, and people asked you what you wanted to be when you grew up, what do you recall telling them?

Unknown: 4:11

I love this question. I like to be a lawyer all the time. From day one, my little Barbie with me with Samantha Smith. She was an attorney. And I think I carried that passion all the way through high school. I was part of the future Lawyers of America group and even got to go to court with that group and stuff. I obviously didn't pursue that path because law school was very expensive and my parents didn't have the money to afford any kind of college to be honest. And so I will say the rude awakening happened between high school and college registrations where I changed my path.

Norma Reyes: 4:51

Okay. And whom do you recall as some of your earliest career role models that you imagine yourself? Growing up to be like,

Unknown: 5:02

do you remember Christina? The the talk show

Norma Reyes: 5:04

was?

Unknown: 5:06

Yeah. Yeah, I love can you see that I always wanted to, like, be her. And you know, she always had that sentimental side and she could get people to open up. I will say that that was probably my first idol. But I've always been a huge fan of Oprah too, as a child. I just think that they have both of them have a way with people that I admired, even with tough, difficult conversations, they were able to really get people to open up. Yeah, I

Norma Reyes: 5:37

totally forgot about Christina. So it was good. It was good. So then now, tell us about your educational background. Did you go to college right after high school? And how did that unfold for you?

Unknown: 5:50

Yes, I did. I went to Trinity College in DC, I actually applied to numerous places and got into all of my accepted colleges, I was a fun fact a little bit of a nerd growing up cool nerd, if you will. But yeah, my parents were immigrants, so very studious, you know, focused on my studies. And so I've been told the school is you Penn University of Maryland. But Trinity gave me a scholarship. And you know, with our financial situation, it just made the most sense. College was very hard for me, because Trinity was a private, all women school. All of my peers that went there, which I'm still really good friends with, came from private Catholic schools. And I grew up in a low to middle class, you know, area, very diverse, more Latinos and black African American folks than Caucasian folks. And I will not say my education was bad. But when you compare it to a private, upstate New York Catholic education, I definitely struggled to catch up to my peers.

Norma Reyes: 7:01

Definitely, I would imagine it's more rigorous. And then you also probably had somewhat of a culture shock to, oh,

Unknown: 7:09

I don't think we did homework in the way that these women did homework, you know, were the books that they had already read. And they had been in that Catholic education system, which I had not. And so I will say freshman year was very hard. I also lived on campus. So it was the first time I was away from my family for an extended time. And I of course, took full advantage of the freedom. So you combine that with struggling for the first time, because I've always been an overachiever with freedom. I will say freshman year card.

Norma Reyes: 7:42

Yeah, I went to the state school. So you know, was it more rigorous than my probably low income education? But I'm sure it was. And I don't really think that was the problem. Why I didn't do well. My freshman year, I got like a my 2.3 GPA. I didn't even realize how close I was to like being like an academic probation. But yeah, fortunately, I wasn't. And I knew that I needed to change something part of it was just that I had never learned how to actually study, right? Because I would go to class, just be there, take a few notes and get an A. But in college, I mean, I guess you can kind of do that if you pay attention. But I don't think I ever paid attention in class in the beginning. Like, I just figured I'd just sit there and somehow just pass the test like I always did before. Yeah, I

Unknown: 8:36

agree. Plus, our class sizes were smaller. In college, I think my largest class was like 35 women. And I came from such a big public high school that I think there was so much attention also that was being given to me that I wasn't used to in college. And I always had I had to work you know, so part of my student loan required, you know, me working in the Student Affairs Department. And I will say my peers weren't in that same similar boat. Not to make excuses, but I agree with you. I definitely wasn't taught to to study or sit. I mean, that homework that much growing up.

Norma Reyes: 9:14

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're probably right. I don't know. It's been too long for me to really remember. So I had the opposite experience. It was like in a classroom of like, 500. So all of my freshman classes were like, you know, I was one in a sea of people. And you know, even though it was only an hour, nor it did feel like I was like one of the very few brown people in the class like, you know, out of the 500 at the time, the university I want to say was about 70 to 80%. White now it's a Hispanic Serving Institute, but at the time it wasn't and in my time there it was transitioning, but it was difficult to really just feel like I fit in. Okay, so I Now I want to hear how your career unfolded after you completed college.

Unknown: 10:06

So During college I bar attended, and I was really good at it. And I made a lot of money, you know. And to be fair, I had to work all through high school and so I forget what minimum wage was, but it wasn't what is now and so comparing like my minimum wage job at cashier, javac, Kmart to the bartending It was like night and day, you know, immediate cash flow. And so when I graduated college, I didn't want a job. I just wanted to stay bartending. And of course, you know, my immigrant parents were like, are ya crazy? Like, no. And so they forced me to get a job, but at least part time and an office setting. And I ended up with a staffing company. And I was adamant, I was like, I'm just answering your phones, you know, with my little clickety clackety occur acrylics. And they're like, Okay, well, you're never going to be a recruiter. And I'm like, I know what that means. But I'm gonna just answer your phones. And we had a clear understanding, and I got hired immediately. And, to flash forward there, I was a terrible receptionist, a really good recruiter. I hung up on people all the time. But we would sit in these meetings back, you know, back then in the bullpen, and they were talking about their open racks. And I would say, Look, you know, candidate that came in, I pull their file, like they're a perfect match. And so within a week, they pulled me from the front desk and moved me to the bullpen. And I will say immediately fell in love with recruiting, I love and not so much the process and all of the minutia that comes with the job, but I love helping people find a job that's going to elevate them. That's been the core of how I've recruited my whole life.

Norma Reyes: 11:53

Yes, I absolutely love that. So one of my first jobs out of college is like my second job, was working for human resources for six flags. And I loved the interviewing part where I got to decide where they went in the park. And I like to pride myself that I did a great job, I still do a great job picking who I select for my team currently, I definitely is the skill, right and seeing that people have value. You know, every person has a value, it's just a matter of finding the right role for them. So that's amazing. And it sounds like you learned that really young, I wish I had had a similar opportunity. Because I know that I love the whole staffing, industry and everything because I just think it's like an opportunity to learn about industries, but not really been in them.

Unknown: 12:46

Correct? No. And I've worked for a finance and accounting firm. And I to this day still count with my fingers. So I can't say that I was like really good. At the finance side. I remember we had like a client call and say they needed someone with a journaling experience. Now we know what journaling means writing general ledger, whatnot. I took that as like journaling in your diary. And I was like, oh my god, I write in my diary everyday. So I was definitely a mess with my baby, you know, recruiting days. But I agree it's a skill. And I think it's centered on that core human piece, right? Because if you're able to see this person in your organization, it's a matter of finding where right, the job can be duplicative, but what team while they shine the best. And that's the part I love.

Norma Reyes: 13:34

Yeah, that's beautiful. Whoa, your current org is lucky to have you. So now I want to hear how that first job to where you are. Now let's share your career journey.

Unknown: 13:47

So I stayed in staffing for quite some time. You know, I will be very honest with you. Job Hopper is a word that doesn't even make me feel bad because I definitely have been a career mover. And I tell people to do that. Primarily because you have to right, find the right fit. And second of all, there's more money on the table. And sometimes as a Latina, they know that they can hire me less because I was making less right and so they give me a little jump up. It's been great. So I jumped around in staffing, supporting multiple amazing clients for different roles across the C suite all the way down to reception and really loved it in 2007 the economy, you know, we had our first little economy crash. I was also pregnant with the boys have twins. And I and I decided I was like, you know, I want stability. What does stability look like? I'm a big law of attraction and vision border, which is how I found you. And so I sat and mapped it out. And for me, corporate America became an obsession and so I started really trying to figure out how to break into it. And I broke into h P, I introduce you to my friend Gina porteau. Not too long ago, her brother got me the job at HP. And that was in 2009 or 10. And I joined as a recruiter and stayed at HP for about five years. The beautiful part what I will say about HP is that they had an amazingly well ran Human Resources operation or people org, and you were able to raise your hands to try out new things on top of your work duties. And that, to me is amazing. Like I love the little little buffet of career mobility. And I learned employer branding and recruitment marketing in that capacity, help them launch a career site. I helped them create a Facebook for the first time again, sounds this is so antiquated. But I because of HP, I completely change from recruiting into the recruitment, marketing space or talent attraction, as you call it, everybody calls it something else. And I've been sitting in this space for the past 15 years. I left HP went to Oracle, then I went to Nike and I'm currently at visa.

Norma Reyes: 16:47

Amazing. Amazing. Well, I won't make you share any Cheeseman on any of those, but to share. So in your current role, can you tell us just a little bit more of what you're currently doing? It'd be so yeah,

Unknown: 17:04

absolutely. So I've been working. So for about three and a half years. I am the director of global talent attraction. And basically how I like to describe that you know what to you, my parents don't really get it yet. But I'm responsible for all of the tools, strategies, tactics that the candidate engages with or a job seeker engages with, before they hit apply, once they hit apply. It's another organization's not a problem. But you know, it's a little swiveling to manage. So this means things like managing the career site, managing our technology tools like LinkedIn, and Glassdoor managing all of our digital profiles, content,

Norma Reyes: 17:45

stuff like that. So interesting. So kind of like the candidate journey, you have like the first leg of it, kind of. Yeah. So now a little more about you and your career. So what has been the most influential experience in your career so far? That's

Unknown: 18:05

a hard question. And I did read it before. So I will say having children definitely changed me. And what I mean by that is people call me type A, or super organized, and I have an internal little chuckle. Because prior to having children, and I will say probably age two or three, I was not organized. I was the friend that was showing up 45 minutes late, you know, like your true blue Ber, right, like, always, you know, never very organized. But having twins or being a mom in general, I think kind of forces you to be a little bit more organized. And I've been able to carry that into my career by being more organized and more detail oriented and focused on time and calendar that has allowed open doors because you know, leaders love that right? Leaders love a good organized Taipei human. And because of that pivotal change, I will say has opened more doors in my career.

Norma Reyes: 19:07

Hmm, yes, motherhood will change us. And sometimes, you know what we need because for me, I felt like it was the opposite. When you said that people would call you type A and then she had a chuckle, is like, I'm sure lots of people probably called me that in the past, and maybe some people still do. And I look back and I'd be like, I really wasn't that rigid, but then I have to admit, I really was pretty rigid. But I've grown since becoming a mother and the way I became a mother was a little bit different. I became a mother at 25 to a four and a half year old, you know, so, you know, I didn't have to do that. I like to say I didn't have to do the diapers and all of that stuff. But I also had no idea what the heck I was doing.

Unknown: 19:54

Listen, I love that you started at four and a half I sometimes I mean, I joke all the time that that for me, like the baby stage was really hard, because I like instant gratification. And I love real time feedback. And babies don't do that. So when they started talking and being more vocal, you know, when people hate the terrible twos and threes, I love them because I was finally able to get some sort of reaction I can work

Norma Reyes: 20:22

with. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know that it made it any easier for me since like I said,

Unknown: 20:29

I will be totally honest with everyone. I wasn't the the one that like babysat my siblings or even volunteered to babysit like, in fact, when I was pregnant with twins. My entire family was like, Oh, wow, okay. I have less than a maternal bone in my body to you know, you definitely get it. You do. Do get it with the children. Yeah,

Norma Reyes: 20:54

yeah, no, that was absolutely me like I probably had changed a handful of diapers in my lifetime and no babysitting anybody. So yeah, I completely clueless. Like, I think at one point, I had told my mom, and I don't even I look back. I'm like, why don't even tell her that that wasn't even true. But it just shows like how our mindset, you know, we are so in our minds that we don't even realize like, later, we're like, why would I say that? I would don't think that now. Right? But I remember telling my mom like, I don't think I want to have kids. And she's like, Yeah, that's okay. Not everyone's meant to have kids. And I was so like, taken aback like, that's rude. Mom.

Unknown: 21:35

I can't believe you said that. Because I said I wasn't getting married. And I said, I was never having children. And my first fiance was the saint like, we didn't want to have babies. And ultimately, right, right before we got married, I had this like, really big change of heart. And I'm like, Am I really gonna marry someone? Or never? Like, what if I change my mind? Like, what if I do want to have kids. And so I'm glad that my heart changed and reconsidered. But I do think my whole idea of not wanting children came from a place that we were so poor growing up, and it seemed like such a struggle to be a parent in that environment. And I think when your life changes, right, even if it's like little baby changes, you're able to open up your heart and mind to the new possibilities. And I think that that's what happened when I was like, okay, yeah, how babies.

Norma Reyes: 22:26

I don't even know why I even said it. I can't, I can't I'm not even in that same headspace whatsoever. I'm gonna try to see if I can find any journal entries from them to see like, what was going on that made me think that because now I'm like, why would I say that? I knew I always wanted to get married. I knew I wanted to have kids. Why did I say that in those moments, but you know what my mom said, like stuck with me where like, I guess her reaction to was so accepting right? Latina mom, like, she really did have some grandchildren. So maybe it wasn't as big a deal. But yeah,

Unknown: 23:00

but you still want her to be like,

Norma Reyes: 23:04

it must have been I don't like why? I don't know. But anyway, maybe you're

Unknown: 23:08

going through a rebellious stage and you're trying to push, maybe you've got exactly what you didn't want. And you're like, What is this? I

Norma Reyes: 23:18

could have, I could have been that right. And then you know, became mom. And for anybody wondering, I became a mom to my niece. And so it was an interesting experience becoming a parent at 25. From one day to the next I had like, and like any typical 25 year old, I drank and ate my money. And yeah, that's pretty much what happens. I think it's 25.

Unknown: 23:46

Yeah, I would expect nothing less.

Norma Reyes: 23:51

Okay, so then, now, what have been some of your career challenges that you have faced?

Unknown: 24:00

Okay, this is a such a good question. Because I will say, adaptability, I'm so adaptable to feedback, and I love feedback. But every job that I've worked at, and I'm gonna just center this conversation on corporate America, because that's sort of like the sweet spot. I think every company has their own culture, every company has their own, you know, vibe, or mantras or, and I find that I come into every job being the person I think they want me to be, and then learn quickly, like, Oh, we don't do that here. Like we do it this way. And then I adjust my sales and I, you know, flourish in that job. And then I go to the new job, and all of a sudden, the things I have to unlearn what I learned before, and I don't think they do this too well represented groups of human beings. I find this as a struggle that happens more to historically excluded humans, right. And I think primarily, you know, speaking as a as a Latina, first gen, I think it's easy to say, hey, I don't like the way you wrote that email where you probably wouldn't coach a Caucasian male the same way. And those have been some of my harder moments.

Norma Reyes: 25:16

Yeah, definitely. I can see that I can definitely see the times and it's not just maybe Caucasians that are doing this but also our own people when it could just be that someone a person of color is just more comfortable coming to another person of color with an issue versus a white colleague.

Unknown: 25:39

Oh, it's done. physically are people, you know, the ones that you think, Oh, we're comfortable, I can be myself around you. And then it's a little clip here, right? It's never like a big clip. It's just a clip of your soul one time that a second time. And then before you know it, you're not yourself. And that's usually around the time. I'm like, Okay, I need to leave here. Like, where did cylinder go? You know, who am I? And now,

Norma Reyes: 26:05

yeah, that is so true. You're making me it made me have flashbacks of an old supervisor that I had. And some of the conversations that, you know, I'm like, at the time, I think I didn't ever say anything. Because it was like, I already knew like, there was no, no point. Even before I had found out that there had been numerous, like HR complaints about her to HR. And so you know, some of the things that she had mentioned, like, so she hired me from a different unit, I don't had an experience for a year, I came in, and pretty much everybody in the team was leaving as I was coming in. I picked it up because I had already worked for different unit knew the job itself, not the department, but I picked it up and went running. And when it came time to do my annual review, she's like, well, you know, you haven't been here that long. And you've had these write offs. And mind you like those write offs, were not my doing like they just, I just happened to be the one that'd be to be there. And so she's like, I really actually didn't want to hire you for the position. I'm like, What did you even hire? Like? Who says that? And why would you hire me if you weren't interested? After I'm here, the one running this because there's no one else everyone has obviously left because you suck. And she's like, but your previous supervisor did rate you well, so you'll be getting a raise. Like, okay, like I earned that raise. Thank you. And I immediately wanted to walk out of there and just just just cry and it for everyone that knows me personally, like, that's not my character. But that's how hard that stung. No,

Unknown: 27:49

I bet. And when you said that your manager said you I didn't want to hire you. That's what happened to me at HP. This, I fought so hard for that interview and internal promotion from recruiter to program manager. They gave me a measly pay bump. And don't get me wrong. HP was a great company, even my kids will tell you like the perks were great. And I think I learned a lot. But that one manager said to me, you know, you were never my first choice during annual review. And I don't know, it's still like it just really broke my trust. I was unable to fully ever trust her. Even though her the backhanded compliment was like what you proved yourself and you had a good year that how she started, it was just the end for me.

Norma Reyes: 28:37

Yeah. And it's, it's interesting. It made me think of another time where I worked at this grocery store as this was like teenager, or this grocery store. And the manager when he hired me, he's like, I'm gonna go ahead and give you a chance to take my risk with you. But I really wanted to work for the company is a grocery store. Everybody knows here. Everybody loves this door. And so like I said, at the time, like I was like, yes, he's giving me a chance. But then as time went on, like, like, I think maybe that same day or a couple of weeks later, like, but I'm an amazing person. I'm a hard worker, like, What do you mean, you're taking a chance on me? Like, what does that exactly mean? Like, if you don't, if you don't think I'm good enough? Why are you hiring me? Like, you know, these mixed signals that we get?

Unknown: 29:22

Yeah. And then they set us up for failure. Because we feel like we have to prove ourselves, which if you know anything about people with anxiety, you know, which I've consistently have, you know, having to prove yourself being an overachiever being a type A, you make more mistakes, because you feel like you have to be this amazing person that you gave a chance to. And I have heard numerous times throughout my careers, we're going to take a chance on you, you don't have this, or you're missing this piece or that. Nobody wants to hear that just hire us. Nobody wants to hear that you're hiring a token or you're hiring someone that means your health. You know what I mean?

Norma Reyes: 30:02

Yeah, yeah. And hopefully, you know, these microaggressions will just begin to come to light more as more people talk about them. Right. I don't think I ever shared that with anyone.

Unknown: 30:13

No, I never say these things out loud. I will say though, I want to go back to what you said where you're like, This person had so many HR complaints you later found out but you've never said anything. Me too. And I will say that was my experience at Nike and Oracle like I kept having microaggressions people would say things that the employee handbook or employment attorney would be like what just happened? But I never felt comfortable Going to HR going to that, you know, that website where you can anonymously complain, I just don't think it's in our DNA as Latinos physical, right? Like you don't want to lose your job. You don't want to put a spotlight on yourself. What happens when they bring us both to the table? Is that conflict resolution that I struggle with on a daily basis? You know, who do I tell? Like, why don't you said something really inappropriate to me? Who do I? Who do I tell? Where I will say, well represented groups in corporate America? Don't feel that way? Oh, they will. When one second contact the VP of HR and let them know what happened?

Norma Reyes: 31:15

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I'm going to what you said about like, Who do we tell? Yeah, who am I going to tell? What am I I'm going to tell my mom that and what did my mom's gonna tell you? She's either going to not really have a response or just be like was, you know, me? Validate wrong, right. That's it.

Unknown: 31:32

That's exactly it. I stopped telling my family about my corporate problems. Fact, I don't even tell my family when I interview anymore. I just kind of just say, you know, getting a new job, because I don't think they understand the why I'm leaving the process of looking for a new job. You know, if they had it their way, I would just, I would still be at HP.

Norma Reyes: 31:54

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I don't know that my parents I don't even think Well, I don't think I my parents don't even know what I do. They know that I work from home. And it's funny. Yeah, they probably just don't think I do anything all day.

Unknown: 32:11

I think my dad, my family still thinks I'm a recruiter. Because that whole top of funnel situation I explained to you is too much. It's fine. If they love saying that. Oh, me hate them. I use I couldn't throw my whole just email her, you know, she'll help you. So I think they enjoy that. And I don't take that away from them no matter what.

Norma Reyes: 32:31

I'm gonna have to ask my parents. What do you tell people I do? Funny, just random. I just thought about this. Whenever I started my business in 2019, I had gotten to breakfast at our taco place nearby by my mom's and, and I was like, Oh, Mom, I started a business and she's like, Oh, okay, what did you start a business of? And I said, Well, I'm selling myself. And you know, I meant it as a joke, but she just looked at me like what, you know, I mean, literally, I am selling myself.

Unknown: 33:06

Absolutely. Dying over here on mute. I already see her face.

Norma Reyes: 33:14

I know, right? I know. And she knows me and my personalities, but she's by trying to figure out like, well, I know, you know, you know, meaning like guy. Yeah, but what I'm Yeah. What do you mean? I don't even know that I could fully explain it to her and Ben. I don't even remember what the rest of the conversation was. I just, I don't eat and it's like, unlike me to even make jokes like that. But apparently I needed to that day. Okay, so now, tell us what has been some of the worst career advice that you've received?

Unknown: 33:50

This is a really good question. I think. When I first started my quest for bettering myself as an employee in corporate America, and it's a quest I'm continuously on, some of my first mentors were Caucasian men, or Caucasian women, who I think can get away with not seeing their advice was bad, per se. I think their advice was warranted and very good that they could pull it off themselves, or people that look like them could pull off, but I couldn't. And some of that advice definitely got me in trouble and the way that I communicated. So for example, you know, some of my, when I went from HP, I was managing five people to Oracle, managing 20 That was a very big jump of people management for me. I was ready for the challenge. I got to build my own team and it was a very exciting time, but still motivating the masses as a leader of a big org was new to me. And so I remember hiring like a career coach, if you will to help me and some of his direction was very male, masculine aggression. That was not necessarily my style, but I quickly took it because I was like, it's an assassin corporate America and I will say it did it take like that wasn't my leadership style so maybe it just didn't work it didn't land very well. My team was global and people in Europe I people and you know, Latin America all over and that was bad advice. Good advice for people leader. You know, just lessons learned now is there isn't one style for everyone. You know, as a human you have to adjust per human right As you can't just have broad strokes, and treat people the same way with the same expectations as much as you may want, right? Because if we think back over the managers we hate, right? You're like, why do we all why are we all under the same expectations? And so I will say, I try my very best to receive feedback from women that are in the same place as me on the same path, because I find that we can commiserate with same problems and problem, maybe even problem solve better than folks that have maybe gotten away with being that way. But that's not necessarily the right way for me.

Norma Reyes: 36:18

Yes, yes, I love that. I always say that, you know, take, take what you need from the piece of advice, and then make it your own. Because what works for someone may not work for you, and what works for you may not work for someone else. I definitely can can see the differences now after working with a peer who was Caucasian. And she you know, she and I worked really great together. And we learn our our styles just based in, you know, being becoming friends in our leadership styles, but also how we ran the team. And so I was like, if it came to read in an email, I wrote the emails for the team. When it came to discussing the information, she presented it because I could say the exact same words, and it just didn't not come off. Because I just don't have that, that, you know, you just got to know your personality. And it just wasn't in me, right. I think I've changed my personality since then, as well, not that I've changed myself but me as a person, I've grown and changed, right. And so you know, she would deliver some message and everyone would see it as warm and fuzzy. Even if she was telling you, you're about to lose your job. If people were like, she's so nice. And in the background. Like just and not that she's not a nice person. But she was like ruthless, right. And I've actually the person who is very considerate of everyone else, but I'm probably considered the ruthless person.

Unknown: 37:52

I find that because the stereotype, right? When you Google Latinas, you see Latina, angry, Latina, you know, other things that are more sexual in nature, but for the most part, Latinos are labeled as a theory or write your Latina girlfriend's gonna beat you, right. And it's just a stereotype that has been permeating it, we're getting better, this generation is not going to tolerate it. And I love our children for that. But because of that stereotype, because of the very limited films, or, or music that we make it into mainstream America, I find that I combat that too. I could throw in a happy, you know, Friday, right, with a unicorn and say the same thing that my colleague is saying, and I'm like, Wow, are you upset today? Like, what? No, like, it's just very direct to the point and what do you mean, right? But I think it comes with having to shake that perception that people have developed about Latinas?

Norma Reyes: 38:54

Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's so interesting just to because I would never even consider myself to be like an angry, spicy person, because my demeanor is very muted. My mom's demeanor is very muted. So, you know, I didn't even realize that there was the angry Latino stereotype. And now, you know, now it makes sense. No, it makes sense why I would be told certain things and be like, but why would people think that

Unknown: 39:23

I have a great story I, I've always been taught in my work career to just get straight to the point, right. And I think came from the years of me being like, fluffy, perhaps, like, you know, too much information or too much fluff is what I used to hear. And so now I'm very organized in my emails, like, who, what, why they're very clean. And I had a manager that would say, you know, it'd be great if you ask Patty, about her kids in soccer, or maybe if you asked about their weekend, or whatever. And I remember saying to them in my annual review, like, is this something you're asking everyone to do? Because no one's asking me about, like my kids potty training right now. And her face was like, oh, and I'm like, I'm happy to do it. If it's like, all of us are doing it. And I think it comes again from that, like they either want us to be labeled angry or maternal, right, like the mom, the Latina, you know, housekeeper the Latina House Maker, right. But I have gotten so much better at pushing back and making sure people know like, I hear you, but I also don't notice anyone else doing it. So are we all going to start doing this? And once you put it that way, I think people are like, Oh, okay, like you Really push her around. Took me a long time to get here, though.

Norma Reyes: 40:44

Yeah, I was gonna say that next, right like over time you kind of build that up, and you reflect back on all of those situations that, you know, it just happens, we all have encountered those and the more we talk about them, the more it can be exposed, right? Because we're just not used to talking about these mostly because we may not even know who we can share this with your peer who looks like you, you may not feel like you can divulge that information to them. And you may feel embarrassed. I know that a lot of times when my boss spoke to me the way she did, I was embarrassed, you know, and I would talk to one of my peers about it, you know, and she would just, she'd be like, I can't believe she said that to you. Right. But that's kind of where the conversation would end a lot of the time. And, you know, I think part of staying there was I was hoping to move into leadership. And then at some point, in my mind, I realized, like, okay, like, the opportunity to move up to leadership is never gonna happen. And it has nothing to do with an opportunity. It has to do with the fact that this person does not see me as a person that she wants in leadership. And that's such a

Unknown: 41:53

hard realization to come to. Because I think we've been raised it not regardless of your family background, to think, you know, the American way is if you work hard, you will be noticed and you will be rewarded. But the reality is that culture is not so much so in corporate America for our people.

Norma Reyes: 42:14

Right, right. And it's definitely more maybe blue collar to versus white collar, because even if you went back, I'm pretty sure white collar has always been less about Yeah, it's all the politic, your work and more.

Unknown: 42:30

telling you I mean, I think I said this the other day on a work call, when I was advocating for our team to be a little bit more forthcoming with information on what they what people of color can expect in the interview process. I use the example that we don't know, like, our dads or uncles aren't SVPs of finance, you know, fortune 500, or, or the director of technology, like we didn't grow up with that. So it wasn't like that was permeating into now, my kids, your kids are gonna be super lucky. Because being a director, being a leader in corporate America, how we talk in our emails, that's going to be normal to them, you know, that's an easy, attainable goal for them. Right now. We're living the dream that our parents hoped we would, you know, achieve by being leaders in corporate America.

Norma Reyes: 43:23

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I hear my son, you know, he's only six, say words that I'm like, I don't even think I knew that word until maybe I was in college. So true, are just amazing. It's amazing. And that's how much a difference even even if I had no degrees, right, I was still the same person. Because essentially, a degree doesn't make you you are who you are you make yourself I think that you know, it would still influence him, right? My parents had zero degrees. And here I am with a PhD. So who you are is who you are. Right? My parents instilled not just that education was important. But then I was important enough to achieve that. And hello, let's

Unknown: 44:03

celebrate your PhD. Because your career is amazing. You're highly educated. You're doing such amazing things. I don't think we celebrate you enough. So well, who Thank

Norma Reyes: 44:13

you. I don't celebrate myself enough for for sure. You guys don't even know. Okay, I do have the PhD up there. I was gonna say do I have my opinion out there? I do. But I do have like other degrees on the floor that I need to put up. So the next question is what has been some of the best career advice that you've received?

Unknown: 44:38

I love this. So the best advice I've received is recently, so I shared this on social media, but I got accepted into a leadership class here at visa called amplify your leadership voice. It's primarily centered on using your voice for impact versus noise, which I really appreciate. Sometimes I feel like I just talk so much and nothing gets done. But that advice. So we've been getting taught by Cornell professors. And one of the pieces of advice she said is that women are so scared to do the next thing. You know, go for that promotion, go for that bigger job, leave the company do a risky thing or it's like men. Oh, immediately they without thinking, yep, Sign me up. I don't even care what the job description is right. And what she said was isolate the fear before you tackle the riff. And that to me was so black and white. And the premise of that is, before you take the risks, there's a reason that you're held back. What is that? You know, for example, for me, some of my things are alive can't be without a job, you know, I can't not have benefits, right? So if I put myself out there, and they reject me, then in a month employed, what happens, right? But if you isolate the fear, and you realize I'm employable, I'm gonna get another job, or they're not going to fire me, you know, then all of a sudden, the risk feels less risky.

Norma Reyes: 46:19

Yeah, definitely. I love that. Women definitely need to take more risk. Next question is, what career advice do you want to share with our audience?

Unknown: 46:33

So the best career advice that I can offer is be organized in your career, right? And not necessarily do I believe careers are linear or growth is linear, my growth has definitely been zigzaggy with a lot of downs sometimes. But if you organize yourself with a goal, and your goals are going to change, so I recommend that you revisit your goals often. But if you are goal oriented, and I want to promotion or I want to move department, or I want to join a fang company, you know, a Facebook, Apple, in a very descriptive with your goals, it makes the path much easier as you grow in your career. And what I mean by that is, for so many years, I knew that I wanted to climb the ladder, but I didn't really have a goal or a final destination. And you're not that I'm in a final destination mode. But things just kind of happened. And I'd be like, okay, accept this interview. Okay, I'll take the offer. And I kind of allowed the universe or just happenstance sort of formulate my career, and I've been very lucky. But I've wanted you want to own that, right? It's your career. And so being able to be very delineated and what jobs you want to take, what duties you want to have, what titles you want to own, I think make the process much easier as you climb that ladder.

Norma Reyes: 48:08

Yes, yes, I love that. I think for myself, right? Just to kind of on the other on the flip side of that, if you're a person that's very goal oriented, because for me, you know, when I came into this company, I'm like, my eyes were like, I want to be a VP. And really, in most roles, like, I want to be at the top top top. And for myself, though, I think, and you know, everyone listening, just take the take what works for you and see where you are, right? Like, don't just take anything we're saying, and it's gold, it's gold, if it works for you, it's trash, if not. And, you know, for me, I think, like having that is great. But sometimes when I set goals, then I actually wrote down this notes from yesterday that I went with the client, don't chain yourself to an idea, don't chain yourself to a goal and remain curious as to where your career journey can go. Because when we fixate on this one tiny little position, that seems like the world to us, we shut ourselves off to all the other opportunities that may come into us. Right? And so, you know, yes, set a goal. Goals are important and you need to have somewhere you're aiming otherwise you're just kind of be floating around and when will take you but by, you know, setting that goal also just continue to look in the peripherals and see what's going on. Right What exactly what other opportunities coming to me what is my intuition telling me?

Unknown: 49:49

No, I 100% agree. I think by allowing outliers, you know, phone call a random call from a recruiter that you weren't expecting, take it you don't know where it's gonna lead. The title may not sound like my goal, that stretch goal, but it's a good company. So I absolutely agree with you. I think my advice is coming from a place where was so disorganized with where I was going, that I think that kind of not kind of held me back, but maybe I could be a little further along than where I am now. Had I had more of a organized mentality. But I don't regret anything. I mean, I've worked for some incredible companies done some great work. What I do regret is not champing for salary. I used to never negotiate. I'd be like, okay, and then come to find out. I was always below market. That's another advice. Research the salary. Make sure you ask for more. There's always more money there for us. Like I honestly, I do believe, especially Latinos. I mean, it's we already know, or maybe pay equity report in November release that, you know, at that time, I want to say with something like 81 cents to the dollar of a Caucasian male, so we know there's money on the table for us.

Norma Reyes: 51:18

Yeah, yeah, definitely. There always is. And, you know, to follow up on that, like, if you're negotiating, because I know I attempted to negotiate when I came into this role, not this position, but into the company. And at the time, they had the talent acquisition, recruiters all of that laid out differently. And so, you know, I was trying to negotiate with the recruiter, and she told me, No, like, she didn't even take it back to the hiring manager. She just told me no, now being on this, and I realized what she did was not okay. And they've, you know, changed the processes, because who knows how many other people they were doing that too, because now, like, we have to approve, right, and they have to come back. And it's a whole actual process versus it just being very verbal. She told me no. And then she also had the audacity to tell me that well, I was getting a big raise from where I was coming from, which, yes, I'm getting a big raise, because I'm already underpaid, working for a nonprofit.

Unknown: 52:26

People forget that part that we're making up for years of being underpaid. Yours?

Norma Reyes: 52:33

Yes. Yes. Unfortunately, it's something I will say, you know, is that one of my peers, she's now a director, but she really pushed for us to pay our staff more when we were when we were hiring people. And I'm proud of that. Now, at first, I was like, Well, you know, everyone else is making this. And she's like, Yeah, but why not? It's not like it costs us anything to bring them in at the highest possible that we can. And now I do. I am one of the only people to do that. But it's because why not? You know, in behavioral health, we're already underpaid. Why am I not going to bring these people in as high as possible that I can do it?

Unknown: 53:15

Of course, I don't even care what you were making before. Unless I can't pay you, right. And then I'm like, Oh, I gotta be honest with you, I want to hire you, but I can't afford you, you know. But other than that, to me, it doesn't matter. This is what the job is going to pay a purple person like, you know, non descriptive color, race, gender, you know, anything. And I'm gonna give you as high as I can get away with all the time. I always have been this

Norma Reyes: 53:45

way. That's great. Yeah. And there is at least in corporate, there is always more you know, what I can bring people with the highest, it's the highest that I can do it without approval. You know, if I really like a person, then I can actually go above that. And they sounded terrible. If the person is valued at a higher rate, you know, I don't want to sound like if I like, you sound like a personality. It's like a good fit thing.

Unknown: 54:10

No, no, no, I know what you mean. Yeah.

Norma Reyes: 54:14

So now, was there anything else that you wanted to share with us? Oh, I

Unknown: 54:19

think this is so good. Thank you so much for having me. It was really great questions. No one ever asked about my family. So thank you. So I'll send them the podcast link, though they'll enjoy being a part of it.

Norma Reyes: 54:31

Yes, yes. I like to share that because I feel like a lot of times, you know, we see people in their professional careers. And then we make these assumptions that, oh, she must have had family help her or she must have come from an affluent family, or, you know, her family, you know, we just make assumptions. Same thing for even people who are wightlink Two of my peers. I just assumed that they were, they grew up middle class. And you know, one of them, she talked about, like, they sometimes had to sleep in the back of her dad's camper because they didn't have anywhere else to sleep or live on I wouldn't have known that if I'd gotten to know her. And it really is like, okay, my assumption was you grew up middle class because you're white. And I had a boss too, who same thing. You know, he grew up in the trailer parks and he shared that after I got to know him, but again, I would have not assumed that right and not saying that I assumed everyone a person of color is like me, but I kind of do I kind of and then that's when some of this disconnect happens because You know, just because you're a person of color doesn't mean that you grew up like me, either.

Unknown: 55:44

100% I have some of my best friends are people of color who went to private school growing up or a definitely upper middle class, you know. So I love this question, though. I think it grounds us all on upbringing, because I do think that influences who we are today in our careers.

Norma Reyes: 56:03

Yeah, definitely. Did you want to share how anyone can reach you if they're interested in just following you on social media?

Unknown: 56:11

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Sally underscore speaks on Instagram, and Twitter. And then I'm sending them if IDs Appleby on LinkedIn, you can add me as a friend or you could follow me, whichever is your most preferred method. I'm pretty active on Instagram. But I will say Twitter's my most favorite channel. Like no one follows me there.

Norma Reyes: 56:35

Okay, all right. Random. Wise Twitter. I want to know, I know, I see you posted a lot there. Why is Twitter your favorite? I want to know I like hop in and hop out of Twitter. But I just Instagrams my favorite.

Unknown: 56:47

Um, yeah, I love Instagram, because it's pretty. So the aesthetic is really nice. And I feel like it's curated. I think, you know, I see it more as like, like a Pinterest of ideas from people I love. But Twitter is kind of like a free for all. And I think people just go on there and say whatever they want. It's not so prim and proper. And, you know, I'll talk about my water heater problems. My children who I call my roommates, I'm talking about work, you know, and so it's, I feel like the expectation is, you could be a little bit more yourself. There, no one is expecting you to show up with your suit on is kind of where I'm going with it. And I think that allows for a lot more genuine conversation.

Norma Reyes: 57:29

You know, it's funny, you talked about, you know, Instagram being aesthetic and stuff. You can look up like their natal charts like their astrological charts like of the companies and Instagrams, like a Libra, which is very much about this Stetic and looking, you know, pleasant. And I want to say Twitter is like an Aries which of course you know, it's like to don't care just just

Unknown: 57:56

however you want to say yeah, fiery, you know, yeah, little. The tea is always on Twitter.

Norma Reyes: 58:04

Well, thank you so much for being with us, Sally. I can't wait for everyone to hear this episode.

Unknown: 58:11

This was fantastic. I really appreciate you thank you so much for having me on. And I know we're going to talk more after this.

Norma Reyes: 58:17

Yes, you know thank you for listening to them. Manifest Your career podcast with me, your host Dr. Norma Reyes, a career and mindset coach. Learn more today on manifest your career.com